OOC to Journey to Dort:The Pelagic Horse:Samheen 16th

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Isabella Florentina
Countess Companio, "Countess Cabernet"
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:43 am
Location: Seven Seas

OOC to Journey to Dort:The Pelagic Horse:Samheen 16th

Post by Isabella Florentina »

Dear Sfein,

Our characters have yet to share a single conversation, yet you have already formed an opinion of Isabella it would seem.

Now, I do not even want all PC's to like my character. She's an evil coniving arrogant little twit, whose single goal is world domination. However I do take issue with how you have come by this information. You see.. you are confusing In Character knowledge of Sfein with your knowledge as a player (Out Of Character).

As a player you can read all about Isabella. She has previous threads, a journal that is rather revealing and I always take care to post her thoughts in my writing because I enjoy creating contrast between what she says and what she thinks.

However... think for a moment the picture Isabella presents to the outside world, something I am always careful enough to mention because after all.. appearances are everything. Isa cannot have looked more than a very well dressed lady with a grace that showed at the very least patricians blood. A lady who is gentle and kind to those around her, and to all outward appearances behaving very proper. You might have suspected she was a Rose, but if you know that much about Citadel culture you would also know a Rose Guild Companion is NOT a slave, merely an employee.

You keep bringing up the slave thing btw. Now that may tie in with Trothgard, but that also is a place with the highest respect for women, slave or not... something I don't see you roleplaying towards Isabella. In fact, from the start you've disliked her without apparant reason, assuming that she was plotting something.

Without analyzing our entire plotline let me give you some examples of what I mean

look at the slave girl, she radiates mischief all over…

“See those nobles? They play a kind of mind-game with each other if you ask me, and the non-nobles are pieces on their game board, to be moved in order to reach whatever they want. She is setting that big sailor up to do something at least that is what I guess.”

I actually thought they were lovers, considering the way they looked at each other.


Precisely what mischief was Isabella radiating before she forced Jacob to marry her? How do you even know that Jacob and Isa are playing mindgames without even talking to her? How on Tazlure did Sfein see anything going on between Isa and Bill, other than that Bill was obviously enamoured? All actions she took were carefully hidden and I didn't see you take any action to further investigate. You could have spied on Isa and Bill when they were having it out on deck. Now that would have been a tale to tell. But you didn't, and so you sorely lack evidence of any wrong doing.

The so called ‘noblewoman’ had somehow disappointed him, but he could not exactly tell why.[snip] the slave girl had turned out to be dead on the inside. Perhaps that was it, she had acted so... superficially.

I feel that this woman is absolutely unlike you. She might be competitive with you in terms of outward beauty, but you are stable, honest and reliable, and my impression of her is different. But that is just my so called 'uncivilized' intuition. My impression is that she was scheming together with the big sailor, and I guess that this count Jacob discovered them.


Sfein has had these intuitions before, including more or less reading Isabella's mind. Yet I do not see anything on your skills list to suggest you have paranormal gifts. Again.. I'm fine with you disliking Isa.. but it does seem very convenient.

Isa does have paranormal gifts btw.. she's an empath and a magick user. Just in case you were wondering why I think its perfectly normal for Isa to guess somebody's emotional state (and she can still be very wrong on occassion). It is something I worked very hard on, months and months of roleplaying.

o if she is not a slave, what was she? A prostitute?
if that is the case, then I hope she is one from the guilds, like the Roses, as that will make it easy to get her killed. After all, which nobleman wants to make use of the services of the guild if the guild clearly abuses the trust you place on their discretion? So such a guild has to perform the strongest punishment possible to keep it's reputation.


Again.. if Sfein knows enough of the Citadel to know of the Rose Guild, and being from Trothgard on top of that, he should also know that Roses are not prostitutes and their punishments do not include executions. In fact Trothgard is not a vassel patriarchal society like the citadel.... so this entire concept is an offense to his cultural notions in the way I view it.

Perhaps it is a plot to kill you, first she marries you, gets your title, and then your heritage so to speak, as you will experience an 'accident' in the near future.

What are her powers? I noted something strange, but I am not certain.


A natural speculation perhaps, but damn convenient, since reading Isa's thoughts you know exactly what she is planning and that she's an empath.

[hr][/hr]

Now, I did not start this thread to quarrel, but I find this contuining of you using OOC knowledge to gain an IC advantage a major irritation. I would like to continue playing with Sfein in a manner we both enjoy, which means you will have to stop doing this mixing of IC and OOC knowledge :)

Fair warning though... Your IC actions will cause IC reactions with Isa. By now she is more than ready to recognize you as an enemy. The gloves are off. If she's ready to kill her husband she's more than ready to remove a starting bard who is standing in her way. Then again.. playing that out without either of us cheating could be fun, no?
[size=92][color=darkred] [b][i]
Together they planned a power and a love that would be envied forever.
Who was to know that forever would be so short?[/i][/size][/color][/b]
Guest

Post by Guest »

Sfein
In respect of Isabella's comments, and as the moderator of this thread I should put a point or two here.

Isabella did not mention it, but she did (after talking with me about it) on a previous post do a heads up to you with an In Character post which should have made you take notice, but it didnt.

I take some of the blame here because I should have approached you about it earlier, but I was hoping once you got into the run of the thread properly you would play IC, and not use OOC.

Please read Isabella's post here in the spirit that it is written, just to give you a heads up on how some of your posts are coming out.

It may be that you have not realised that your using OOC knowledge IC. If that is the case, then perhaps we are at fault for not ensuring you understood the expected way to play the character.

Please be sure that you understand what Isabella has written, especially the last two paragraphs.

If you have any questions, be sure to ask here, or in a PM if you wish.


Dyfed Benfro, AGM.
Guest

Post by Guest »

Hi Isabella,


She's an evil coniving arrogant little twit, whose single goal is world domination.

And she met a confused straightforward barbarian with a big, big imagination.

Let me try to explain my actions.

First why Sfein thinks it is likely that Isabella is a slave:

When Jacob and Isabella walked pass him, bickering, this is what Isabella said:

"You may own my contract Jacob de Bessnie, but you do not own my soul," Isabella told him sharply, "And while on the topic of that contract, it may have been expensive indeed if all you are getting out of it is my company without my cooperation, my sunny disposition or my advice. I am a Rose, not an expensive... whore."

<snip>
“Her eye caught a spectator on the quarterdeck, giving him a small graceful nod as if he hadn't just been witness to a spectacular row. Great. What have you heard?”

That spectator was Sfein.

I gave Sfeins impression of this a few posts later:
When Jacob and Isabella passed him the Trothgarder thought he heard her admitting that the nobleman 'owned her'. So she was a slave after all. The fellow would be extremely rich to dress a slave up like that.

He assumed that she was sold (sales contract) and that Jacob owns her. Therefore, in his barbaric mind, it is most likely that she is a kind of pleasure slave of this nobleman.

The rift between Sfein and Isa start almost at the same moment:

Almost at the same post as mentioned above, Sfein met ‘Bill Irons’ – a big sailor who whispered to Sfein:

There was a pause for a Flicker, "That count Jacob feller don't appreciate er, e don't deserve a woman like that. Someone should do somit about it".


Sfein assumes then, that since he (Sfein) is dressed at that moment as a mercenary, a bigger guy than almost everyone else, this ‘sailor’ was suggesting that he might hire him to perhaps kill Jacob. But when he asks Bill to speak up, he gets the following reaction:

“The sailor waved his hand, "I dunno what you talk about. Now leave me be, go talk to the Lady, she could do with company methinks".”

<snip>
Sfein gave the man a piercing stare. For non-Trothgarders the man was tall, almost reaching Sfein's eye level. Yet the the barbarian managed still to look a bit downwards onto the man.
"So he suddenly is forgetting his remarks" he thought. "Is this a coward with a big mouth that retreats when things might turn real? Or is he instead very clever? Perhaps a combination of the two." What he said made no sense. If he wanted the girl for himself, he should not encourage Sfein to talk to her.
"Unless this is her doing, all along!" he suddenly realized. She could have sent this fellow. To see if this barbarian from the North was interested in this kind of mercenary tasks. He did currently look like a mercenary all in all, and not like a bard.
Yet she could have asked him directly. Perhaps her master did not allow her to approach strangers directly, so he had to be encouraged.
"Sfein, you are paranoia" he mumbled to himself.
He would however, consider the dark haired beauty as a potential danger. And both the nobleman and this tall sailor as potential threats to Airedelle.

There, this must have been the root of the rift between Sfein and Isabel.

There is a sailor that makes violent suggestions to Sfein, then denies, but instead says that he should talk to Isabella. Sfein reads to much in that. I am still not aware of any player knowledge infusing the mind of Sfein. Till that time I had never read anything about or from Isabella.

Now let me react on some of your statements:

Isa cannot have looked more than a very well dressed lady with a grace that showed at the very least patricians blood. A lady who is gentle and kind to those around her, and to all outward appearances behaving very proper. You might have suspected she was a Rose, but if you know that much about Citadel culture you would also know a Rose Guild Companion is NOT a slave, merely an employee.

Help, my jetleg must make dumb (international travel has its price :) ) because I do not see the point. Of coarse Sfein noted how well she is dressed, that, in combination with her, for him very exotic beauty (she is dark as opposed to the blond women he knows) makes him even state that he would be willing to start a raid to capture her:
It must be because Isabella was everything what a raiding Trothgarder could wish for, a beautiful exotic young women that was worth the effort if only for the value of those rich dresses…


Would it perhaps help if I explain what Sfein knows of the Rose Guild?
Well, he knows not much: to him it is a guild (he thinks all guilds are formed to control a certain trade, and expel outsiders) – a guild of prostitutes, but of a special kind. They must be masters in their ‘art’ and he assumes that the guild promises ‘secrecy’ to its customers.
Seeing how lovely and delicate Isabella is, would fit in her being a member of such a guild. He does not know that Rose Guild companions see themselves as employees and not as slaves.

“You keep bringing up the slave thing btw. Now that may tie in with Trothgard, but that also is a place with the highest respect for women, slave or not... something I don't see you roleplaying towards Isabella. In fact, from the start you've disliked her without apparant reason, assuming that she was plotting something.”

Eh – of coarse he respects women, she how he almost worships Airedelle. But in my personal life I know people that I respect and honour, but also dislike. You can even respect your enemy. Again, I seem to miss the point.

That Sfein could see how Bill looked at Isa was obvious to me, and also how Jacob had a very possessive nature. Since Sfein thought that Isa might be scheming (see above) – he interprets their entire behaviour as ‘mindgames’.

Again.. if Sfein knows enough of the Citadel to know of the Rose Guild, and being from Trothgard on top of that, he should also know that Roses are not prostitutes and their punishments do not include executions. In fact Trothgard is not a vassel patriarchal society like the citadel.... so this entire concept is an offense to his cultural notions in the way I view it.

I should go to bed, I am tired, but since my plane leaves early tomorrow, and I want this finished… No, he does NOT know that Roses are not prostitutes, he thinks they are. And about their punishments he has no clue either. To him as barbarian a punishment to someone who is considered a traitor is likely to be execution.


My impression of what you say is this:
“Sfein dislikes Isabella, because he thinks she is a scheming bitch – yet he uses player knowledge to know that she is scheming.”
(my sincere apologies if these wordings are too strong – but I exaggerate here to get the point clear. I do NOT think she is a bitch, let alone the player who ‘plays’ her, on the contrary, I enjoyed reading your posts – and my choice to write such a long story was even aimed at impressing her :oops: )
O.K. – I hope that I made clear what caused Sfeins behaviour?
- The quoted parts show how the feeling that she might be scheming started. And from that moment on, a too lively imagination did the rest.
- But for some reason his imagination seems not too far astray of the truth.

“look at the slave girl, she radiates mischief all over…”

“Precisely what mischief was Isabella radiating before she forced Jacob to marry her? How do you even know that Jacob and Isa are playing mindgames without even talking to her? How on Tazlure did Sfein see anything going on between Isa and Bill, other than that Bill was obviously enamoured? All actions she took were carefully hidden and I didn't see you take any action to further investigate.

I hope I did explain this?


“Isa does have paranormal gifts btw.. she's an empath and a magick user. Just in case you were wondering why I think its perfectly normal for Isa to guess somebody's emotional state (and she can still be very wrong on occassion). It is something I worked very hard on, months and months of roleplaying.”

I wish this talent of her had worked when he told his story and totally panicked himself.
That would have been the moment that everything would have became different.
I still think it is weak from the mod that other NPC’s immediately recognize what is going on (i.e. WHY he is confused) while the one person on the ship that had the biggest potential to realize what was going on (Isa)– did not notice.

You could have spied on Isa and Bill when they were having it out on deck. Now that would have been a tale to tell. But you didn't, and so you sorely lack evidence of any wrong doing.

This is a painful statement.

In my, in fact THE last post, in our first joined thread, you can read that Sfein leaves his hut before Isabella (as he can hear her lovemaking with Jacob – I have once sailed on a ocean vessel as crew member, and believe me, the walls of your hut are made from very thin wood – there is not much privacy there :roll: ) and goes to the deck to spent the night there.
Even more quiet, he slipped to the deck, where he searched for a sheltered place where he could sit, undisturbed. Here he could watch the stars.
The same night as that Isabella and Bill are having it out on the deck….

Yet our mod did not react – so I assumed that I was not supposed to overhear what went on. Which I regret.
And btw I just now discovered and read the separate thread that Isabel had with Bill Irons that night.

If nothing would have been going on between Isa and Bill, you’d probably would have thought that Sfeins behavior was funny. Now, it isn’t.
I see that I could give you the perception of using player knowledge IC.

Sorry.
That was never my intention.

How can I make it up?
:(

That leaves your last two paragraphs
Your warning is clear.
But I still do not feel guilty of actually committing this crime, therefore I do not yet present a ‘Mea Culpa’

If you want to play it out ‘with the gloves off’ – that is o.k.
I believe that in real life most of the conflicts are based on misperceptions that result in a cascading array of moves and countermoves – while if everybody would have known the real motives they would have been ashamed of letting things so fiercely escalate.
Since roleplaying, or ‘role-writing’ in this case, is not much different, why not. Take off your gloves, Sfein is ready; let it escalate, and pledge your (I mean Isabella’s) offerings to the demons of hatred and misunderstanding.

Again.. I'm fine with you disliking Isa.. but it does seem very convenient.


As person, I regret it very much. Things seemed to start nice between Sfein and Isa, and for a while I thought that I found an interesting other writer whose character could share some adventures with mine.
Then the rift appeared and started to widen, as person behind the character I did not like that – but I followed the flow and let my character stay on its own.
Who from perhaps admirer (of her exotic beauty) became weary (she might be scheming) Became distrusting after the storytelling night where he felt attacked (not by her – but since he saw that Jacob was attacked as well- in HIS perception- he offered to join forces with the man- which naturally would make her an enemy.
Yet –
Yet – he did NOT join forces with the nobleman, as he thinks the man cannot be trusted as ally.

Does that leave things open?
Or do you want your fight?

Yours,

Sincerely
(not kidding)

‘Sfein’

[/quote]
Last edited by Guest on Sun Aug 01, 2004 5:16 am, edited 3 times in total.
Isabella Florentina
Countess Companio, "Countess Cabernet"
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:43 am
Location: Seven Seas

Post by Isabella Florentina »

Thank you for your long and thoughtful reply :D To think that you admired my PC's so makes me almost feel ashamed of myself :oops:

It looks like this is a case of miscommunication and misinterpretation from all sides rather than any deliberate act.

While I still think that unconciously you did allow Sfein's confusion to move in a very convenient direction I can see that Sfein at least had some inkling of what was going o.

I would like to move on and make sure that from here on we write a great story. So please allow me to give you a few tips on what I've learned about playing in Tazlure over the last few years.

First of all .... in Tazlure the story writing is very dependant on what PC's do and say. Moderators will seldom take the initiative and force something upon you. This goes for knowledge things especially. This means that in order to get what you want.. the best thing is to push what you want forcefully, to assume things happen unless you are told explicitely that they did not happen, you cannot do certain things etc. Moderators will never voluntarily offer up information or assume your actions, they will however interfere if you assume to much on your own. Always make sure your PC is active, instead of 'passively' waiting for your moderator to provide the action.

Now to take this "spying on Bill & Isa on the deck"thing.. would I have played Sfein I would have posted he witnessed the whole scene, maybe even interfered or run to Jacob. If Dyfed disagreed he would have intereferred at that point, but the likelihood is he would have letten Sfein get away with it, for there is nothing more fun for a moderator than a story that writes itself... plus, if you were unsure, you could have asked Dyfed. I speak to him about Isa almost every other day :)

To give another example.. the private thread of Bill and Isa would have gotten nowhere if Isa herself hadn't suggested that she'd like to marry Jacob. Of course.. I tried prodding the mod into providing the action (hey, I much prefer that too), but Dyfed wouldn't give in so my own PC had to make a move.

My second tip is more of an observation on how we've gotten to this stage. Now that you've explained a bit more I can understand Sfein's motivation a bit more. One thing I've learned over the years is to be very bloody obvious about what is moving Isa. I repeat it several times, but in my descriptions and the thoughts of Isa. In a way I'm hitting a reader over the head with it. This is because in a Play by Post game (unlike in a novel for instance) players have fleeting memories and will not read back to see if they understood a PC's motivation right.

[hr][/hr]

How to move on from here? Well.. first of all let me say that I don't dislike Sfein's player.. and Isa only dislikes Sfein because he's obviously so distrustful of her and she's picking up both on his feelings and his non-verbal communication.

I gave you the warning not because I want a fight but because I don't want you to be unpleasantly surprised when something in our plot will force Isa's hand. She'll act as the evil person she's is :)

So.. it could still go all ways. Lets make this a great story :)
[size=92][color=darkred] [b][i]
Together they planned a power and a love that would be envied forever.
Who was to know that forever would be so short?[/i][/size][/color][/b]
Guest

Post by Guest »

Back on the soil of the old continent again - yet another night vanished by an eastward flying plane.

Isabella,

Thanks for the tips. They look useful to me.
I think I should at least have used the 'PM' mechanism more often. So a significant chunk of the blame rests on me.

Regarding the 'what next' :
a big part of the 'escalation' (if there is any, since on a factual level nothing happened yet) is caused by our characters not talking.
I expect that if that remains so, the flow of events will continue its current course.
If I consider Sfeins current mentality, he will indeed passively avoid her, as she might be dangerous. (he will avoid all 'parties' in the conflict, exluding his master Alazais. Unless pushed by Airedelle of coarse).

So I fear it is up to you.
Either approach him, perhaps in an attempt to find out if Jacob would have hired him to kill her?
Or else see how we both are capable to create a deadly clash based on nothing?

Let the story flow.
Isabella Florentina
Countess Companio, "Countess Cabernet"
Posts: 1575
Joined: Tue Feb 11, 2003 9:43 am
Location: Seven Seas

Post by Isabella Florentina »

Indeed, and I see our thread has been nominated by Brogan as a good read ;)

Sorry for shortly vanishing. My real life as well as my online life have been hectic !
[size=92][color=darkred] [b][i]
Together they planned a power and a love that would be envied forever.
Who was to know that forever would be so short?[/i][/size][/color][/b]
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