Tazlure Open Gaming System

Meridiuz · Post by **Meridiuz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:02 am

Ok. Since I have designed the Tazlure Gaming System and I have already started to work on a new one for another game, I thought it would be a good idea to make an Open Source version for everyone to use.

My current idea is that I set up the basic structure and give free hosting to games who would like to use the Tazlure Open Gaming System. All that we would ask is for that game to become part of the Tazlure Gaming Community and to put forward the Tazlure spirit. In this way we can all start our own games and become one big community.

Now I have already started on developing a new system. It will be based on phpbb version 3. But there are still a lot of things that need to be thought up. For instance, games will have different charactersheets, to they need to be dynamic. Different inventory wishes, skill systems, etc. So the system is going to be modular. Next to that it is going to be open souce. You want to code something yourself to extend the game system? Please do! But we do request you to give the code that you made back to the community.

But what if a game has designed their own skill system, or any other specific element that they do not wish to lend out to other games? I still need to come up with rules for that sort of situations. Please post all your thoughts, ideas and questions here!

Langredoc · Post by **Langredoc** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:12 am

I think its a great idea.

* Starts brainstoming

1) Are the games independent

Then all authentication layers should be seperated.

But if we make it a community it means that a user could be part of several games.

So you get

Community authentication
Member of
game 1
game 2
game 6

In a game you have a admin, and he can give or take away the rights for the game accept and banish.

But not for the community.

2) Character sheets.

Could we make that modular ?
or at first all text based. like a paper skill list. Then you can use any skills in your system and later automate it.

Meridiuz · Post by **Meridiuz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 8:25 am

1. Games are independent. Only on coding level they could be coming from similar sources to keep maintenance low. Is it desired to connect the admin/user database for all the games? One login for all games and create different pc's for every game? I can see that as a good feature yes. Then indeed there will be different admin levels.

2. character sheets modular: Yup. They have to be dynamic. As a game designer you decide what is going to be in the character sheet. Most of it is text based anyway. Just add fields. Only the skill and inventory systems need to be coded differently, but I have some ideas on how to do that.

Brytan · Post by **Brytan** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:06 am

I have plans for a game. Like I mentioned before I have been toying with a few ideas and this might be a good opportunity to put them to paper.

On a coding level; I'd very much like to use the code from the current Taz forums. I suck at PHP coding and there is so much that I wouldn't know how to code myself.

On a database level; I feel it would be a good idea to have seperate databases for different games. One, because it will make the load on a single server less and also because I feel a game should have it's own backbone. It will also prevent limits on changing code to facilitate differences in skill lists, inventories and other basic character resources.

What I do like is the thought of a Tazlure Community. Perhaps in the form of a webring or alike, connecting the different efforts which will undoubtedly sprout alongside Meri's and my own. Not only linking to games but other resources like art and chat.

I am at work, but my mind is on Taz. Lots of ideas are brewing for a new setting. I am hoping to be able to put a base for it together soon. What I do know is that I won't be able to do it alone. I won't pretend to be that good. The open source system is a splendid idea I truly hope to be allowed to use. More to follow...

Meridiuz · Post by **Meridiuz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:14 am

Separate servers: well, then people will have to come up with their own hosting options. Separate databases, yes, but several databases can be on one server. I don't think that the server tazlure is currently running on will be having issues with the starting games any time soon.

I feel that if I give away all the coding and have it all be fully separated games, that they will all do just their own thing and there is no shared concept anymore, which I am not prepared to do. If I am going to share the code of Tazlure, it is going to be to promote new games in the community fashion.

I also like the idea of one community login for all the games. It is something that we have thought about a while ago when AoI started as well. Sharing resources is always great of course.

Gwayne of Vendeling · Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:51 pm

Multiple databases would only be logical if it would be on different sites / servers. Because if really need databases can be clustered. But then we are talking about thousands of users.

I prefer a centralized community login because that makes it a unique idea. You should also be able to login directly to your own game. So you can use other domain names with virtual servers to go directly to your own game/rpg.

If you really want to make the system able to use the same id on several servers we could also look at openID.

The software itself should be independent of the game logic.

Meridiuz · Post by **Meridiuz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 12:55 pm

Yeah, the login functionality should be linked with phpbb, but it's completely doable. And the databases will be separate, so every game can have it's own complete structure and layout on the boards. Maybe even it's own wiki too...

Brytan · Post by **Brytan** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:30 pm

The reason why I prefer the ability to use the code seperately from other sites is one born from years of bad experiences with hosting stuff on other people's space. I have written a table top RPG, which was developed entirely on the web, co writing with people from the US and other places. One of my first big RPG projects. The whole thing was hosted on a friend's site since I did not have the resources to fund my own server space.

One day, the database gets hacked due to lacking updates on his side. No backups had been made and all my dev went down the tube.

Other examples were me hosting forums on other people's space and them just taking them down after an argument or if they "needed the space."

Since then I have gotten my own server space and domain names which are currently laying dormant due to RL and other RPG stuff (like Taz). Call me selfish, but if I am going to be spending a great deal of time and effort on building up something that might attempt to be a tenth of what Tazlure is, then I would very much like control of it.

Also, when you suggested making an Open Source version of the Tazlure system, I figured you meant putting the whole thing together in a nice little package for people to use and alter if they so choose. That is, after all, what Open Source is all about.

Now I can imagine you not wanting to relinquish something you have spent years coding and developing. But that is what you would be doing if you made it OSS. The way you're putting it, it's more like you want to provide a service for people to use the system on your terms. Also fine, it's your material. But that just means I will be looking into other ways of putting together something similar to Taz.

Ofcourse, that would suck, since I can't code PHP for the life of me. But I do not want to depend on someone else if I am to be running a project like this. I just wouldn't feel comfortable with that.

I do see some nice benefits to what you are suggesting. One site with direct access and links to any projects done by Tazzies. One login to allow for easy switching and consulting of forums and data. If that is how you wish to go about it, then I will be eager to see how that develops. All I really want is a copy of the current code, since I won't be changing any code really. I just want to be able to work on content and not have to worry about the technical stuff. I wouldn't know where to begin. I just want to continue writing.

So, my current question is; do you truly plan on going OSS with it? Or are you going to be providing it as a service? I need to know so I can continue my train of thought.

Post by **Maeve** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:43 pm

Here is my lesson learned.

You are nothing online if you do not have friends. Choose your friends wisely. Friends with energy, with ideas, with resources, with the willingness to help. Friends who prove themselves and don't just talk big. Who have proven to exist in real life. However you cannot maintain suspicion and control forever. Your game will not grow or be sustained over a long period of time if you do not trust those very same friends to assist you. Delegate, share the creativity, built on what others have built on before. Be a community.

Will there be traitors? Manipulators? Those that badmouth you behind your back? Thieves who run off with your code? Sure, all of that can happen. Smile and carry a big stick. Honestly, on the whole I can say that those incidents have been very rare at Tazlure.

Meri in the last 7 years has always been fair, professional and kept his promises. I would fully endorse a Tazlure Gaming Community. I think it is a wonderful monument to the Tazlure Spirit that brought us all together.

Meridiuz · Post by **Meridiuz** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:49 pm

Well, it is all just a thought that I am working on here, so don't pin me down on it all just yet here. Don't expect it to be ready in one go either. One thing I will not do and that is to give away the current code. The code is out of date and needs to be reprogrammed to the current standards. I have been fine with maintaining my old own code, but I am not willing to spread it out to people who don't have the knowledge to maintain it themselves. I would feel as if I would be spreading bad code over the internet.

Also in the new form, I will not give it away just like that. I would like to receive something back. I would ask for the game to actively participate in making the Tazlure Gaming Community a great place for gamers.

I was thinking of offering the hosting as a free service, but if you would rather use your own service, then I need to rethink the design. The mutual logging in thing would have to get some changes. Another thing is the support of the coding. If any patches need to be done on the forum software, it is highly likely that the automated patching will not work due to customizations in the code. So knowledge of php is essential to keep all the software up to date. Now doing that for a lot of games requires quite some maintenance. Putting it all on my own server makes that maintenance easier for me. In other words, if you want to host it yourself, you yourself will be having to maintain the software, I can't support that all.

Brytan · Post by **Brytan** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 7:56 pm

It might very well be that my past experiences with these matters have made me overly conservative when it comes to running projects on someone else's hardware.

I am very well aware of Meri's commitment to Tazlure and all the work he has done in the past and present. My previous comment was in no way meant as an attack on his character nor on his work. I was merely voicing my concerns based on my own prior experiences, and questioning the manner in which Meri is thinking to continue his work.

That having been said; I stand by my previous question and comment. I am very interested to see where this goes and would very much like to know what I can be expecting. For now I will stick to writing and organizing my thoughts rather than looking for technical solutions. When there is something (semi-)solid to look at, I will be the first person perusing the site.

Because yes; I do trust Meri to be a good guy aside from an excellent coder and I do want to give back to the community he envisions. If I can help maintain the Tazlure community...I will.

Shea Artrien · Post by **Shea Artrien** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:15 pm

Hey there.

I can't code to save my life...but I'll be watching AND definitely involved in any way I can.

Abbott · Post by **Abbott** » Tue Jan 20, 2009 11:21 pm

Meri- I think you are on to something huge here. Even the idea of letting people use the Tazlure code is big, let alone offering to host the sites.

I think a lot of people may have the same reaction as Bry, however. People do want to be sure that they have complete creative control of their projects.

I am very interested in seeing how this all progresses.

Matiel Escariot · Post by **Matiel Escariot** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 3:54 am

I just heard the news today. Sad.

Aight, moving on, Tazlure is not as dead as it is, it lives on in you guys and I'm here to help in any way I can.

Maybe when I'm a rich big shot producer some day I could make a huge movie on Taz...wishful thinking.

Gwayne of Vendeling · Post by **Gwayne of Vendeling** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 6:17 am

Well, dreams can be made reality. Leverage on your strengths, you all have them. Don't look only at your weaknesses they will always be there.

But I agree with Meave. Its all about relations and communication.

Rahilu · Post by **Rahilu** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 2:30 pm

I'm along the lines of Shea- Coding isn't for me. But Tazlure's character sheet setup thrilled me. =) I'm not going to miss out if people decide to make more games alongside it. I'm going to get into them this time, I swear!

Thalia Maelstrom · Post by **Thalia Maelstrom** » Wed Jan 21, 2009 9:48 pm

I third to that of Shea's idea. No idea what most of the beginning of the thread was since my ability with coding and databasing is next to none, but Im all for anything that will keep Tazlure going in a sense. As long as the minds are there, the effort is worth making.

Gwayne of Vendeling · Post by **Gwayne of Vendeling** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 9:07 am

So if I recall right what Merdiuz proposes is a technical framework that will support the dynamic generation of a web based rpg environment.

The content rules and real creation of that environment is still up to the people who manage that game. And thats not easy. Still, looking back at the fact that Tazlure has existed for seven years (and still has the base to start again if Maeve would ever want to) its a rewarding but heavy burden.

I will not create a new game

I will help Merdiuz with the technical framework if he wishes.

Still, I would not wait until merdiuz is ready, start to look at what you want to create. Make rules and content for your world. Start discussing it. And most important.. keep on writing.

Meridiuz · Post by **Meridiuz** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:03 am

Thanks Gwayne, and everyone else. I appreciate the support and it is good to hear that there is such a broad interest.

The development of this new system will take some time, so indeed, please start or continue developing your own game. Also, this thread is for the software required to run the game, not the game mechanics itself. If you are interested in using the Tazlure game mechanics, or parts of it, please check the thread here: http://www.tazlure.nl/board/viewtopic.php?t=16863

Brytan · Post by **Brytan** » Thu Jan 22, 2009 10:04 am

When I get my own computer back up and sort out the basics of a TOS (thanks Maeve for letting us borrow from Tazlure's), I'll be posting details on what I am planning so people can chip in. A lot of stuff needs sorting out and I would very much love input on many levels.

I won't be using the Taz forums for plotting and dev though, I'll have something temporary set up for people to post to while Meri is working on the community code. If other people have plans for a game and want forum space to do some dev of their own, just drop me a line. I'd be happy to provide accomodations in the form of a dev forum for people to share ideas and ask for thoughts, if such is wanted. I can't code, but setting up a basic phpbb forum is something I can do. And the forum I'll be using will be big enough for all of us, I'm sure.

But first I need my own system back. Hopefully some time today or at the latest this weekend...

But yeah, we're straying from the topic. One thing I would very much love to see; a way to integrate wiki elements into the forums more. We've been linking to location descriptions on the wiki before, are there ways to include wiki content in the forum directly?

Say; I want to use the description for location X, so I enter code Y and it appears in my post?

Or maybe; character sheet expansions linked to the original one, like the journals? I'm very interested in utilizing wiki (external/internal) more, since it is a great resource.

Med · Post by **Med** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 10:47 am

Meri 798

"There was much rejoicing and the world went still as a hush. Lightning thundered from his hands as he pounded keys to smite all unworthy. Then a single bloom or two started to sprout and there was rejoice"

Med pope of Meri

Nice thoughts sir wish you the best in your future.

Gwayne of Vendeling · Tue Jan 27, 2009 12:50 pm

Brytan wrote:When I get my own computer back up and sort out the basics of a TOS (thanks Maeve for letting us borrow from Tazlure's), I'll be posting details on what I am planning so people can chip in. A lot of stuff needs sorting out and I would very much love input on many levels.

I won't be using the Taz forums for plotting and dev though, I'll have something temporary set up for people to post to while Meri is working on the community code. If other people have plans for a game and want forum space to do some dev of their own, just drop me a line. I'd be happy to provide accomodations in the form of a dev forum for people to share ideas and ask for thoughts, if such is wanted. I can't code, but setting up a basic phpbb forum is something I can do. And the forum I'll be using will be big enough for all of us, I'm sure.

But first I need my own system back. Hopefully some time today or at the latest this weekend...

But yeah, we're straying from the topic. One thing I would very much love to see; a way to integrate wiki elements into the forums more. We've been linking to location descriptions on the wiki before, are there ways to include wiki content in the forum directly?

Say; I want to use the description for location X, so I enter code Y and it appears in my post?

Or maybe; character sheet expansions linked to the original one, like the journals? I'm very interested in utilizing wiki (external/internal) more, since it is a great resource.

Actually I was thinking that the whole system should be wiki based. But organized like Taz. I am checking if this is possible.

Brytan · Post by **Brytan** » Tue Jan 27, 2009 2:32 pm

That would be cool, since I'm already using a wiki to organize information. Very easy to port that way.

Gwayne of Vendeling · Post by **Gwayne of Vendeling** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 4:24 am

Its more the way data is organized in "posts" in stead of articles. And you have to be able to see it as one stream.

Brytan · Post by **Brytan** » Wed Jan 28, 2009 8:55 am

I am not exactly certain, but in the tazlure wiki, for each article there is a discussion tab. If this discussion tab can somehow be modified to act as a "reply" page, with the main article at the top, then that would act similarly to the forum setup.